Following the release of Death Stranding 2: On The Beach, Final Weapon had a chance to sit down with Composer Ludvig Forssell to discuss the game, including its unforgettable final battle, the use of BB’s Theme, new techniques used, and much more. We hope you enjoy this exclusive interview, and we’d like to thank Ludvig Forssell for making this possible! Enjoy!
Note: Light spoilers for the final segment of the game are discussed in this interview.
Ludvig, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. So really, I just want to rip the Band-Aid off: how did you approach composing that unbelievable final battle? I think “One Last Fight”, spanning Parts One, Two, and Three, has to be one of the craziest compositions I have ever heard. I was sitting there speechless listening to it, and I think that the layering and all that you put into that was just incredible. So I just want to hear from you – how did you go about composing that for the end of the game?
Ludvig Forssell: Yeah, it’s obviously quite a long piece. Originally, it was just one piece, like nine minutes of music that I approached with knowing what the gameplay was going to be, but then they switched the timing around. So it ended up being slightly different from what I originally planned, but I wanted it to start out as a normal battle track, going into something a bit more serene and then going back to action towards the end. Again, the timing got switched around, so it ended up being building into something big, big, big, and then going down quieter towards the end. Nobody told me to use “BB’s Theme” for that, but I just felt like it would work. We already knew that we were going to do a guitar battle thing, so I wanted to do that, focusing on both the original main theme of Death Stranding, the original arpeggio thing, and “BB’s Theme” combined together, and also having the whole battle be so tied to the character of Higgs as well. I suggested having Troy sing part of it, not just for that scene, but as a soundtrack kind of thing for the whole thing. It was just something where I wanted the music to be very central to the part of the game, so that it could just shine on its own in a way, and I think we sort of pulled that off.
Absolutely. You mentioned the guitar stuff, so I do want to ask too: How did the focus of the guitars in the music especially come into play? When I got the guitar at the end, I was like, “Oh, whoa, okay.” Then the guitar started getting more and more in the music, so I’m curious how that came about.
Ludvig Forssell: Yeah. I think part of it was I’d just finished Alan Wake 2, and that has this fantastic musical piece towards the end. Again, I wanted something for Death Stranding where we could have the music sort of be interactive with the gameplay for this final set piece. So, I just came up with the idea that since you, as a player, are mainly using the guitar weapon for the first part of that sequence, like using it as an actual weapon after that, you kind of just use it as a stick to hit each other. For that part, as you’re playing the guitar, I thought it’d be cool to actually have the music play along, play a solo along with that. We recorded a full sequence of solos for the entire part of it, so whenever the player actually fires off the guitar gun, or rail gun, I guess, you’re also hearing a solo being played along with the music. We sort of experimented with that for a bit to have that feel right. It’s sort of hard to interlock some of that stuff, but thankfully, the game designers also worked around how attacks from Higgs and others around you actually interlock with the timing of the music. So we were able to do that in a quite satisfying way. Also, obviously for the part where the two main characters are actually playing guitars together, I sort of went quite a bit overboard with that, and we did like two full sequences. This has ended up being quite short within the game, but, again, I conceptually wanted that piece of gameplay to be focused on the music as much as possible and just wanted to provide as much as I could for the game designers, Hideo, and everyone to work with. So we did quite a bit of extra stuff for that, actually.
That’s super cool. Yeah. So I know you mentioned that you had incorporated “BB’s Theme” and the arpeggio from Death Stranding. What was it like returning to “BB’s Theme”, a composition you made for the original game, and bringing it back with not just one, but many variations, including multiple with Troy singing? There’s the slow version with him singing, then there’s the one in the final battle. What was your process of bringing about that? It was wonderful to see this very iconic theme at this point brought back in the way you did.
Ludvig Forssell: Yeah. Well, you know, we started out with like the first announcement trailer for Death Stranding 2, having “BB’s Theme (2022 Version)” feature Troy singing as well. So it always felt like that was sort of the starting point of the sequel’s soundtrack and sound. Rather than, you know, thinking about “BB’s Theme” as it were, I was always thinking about how to have it evolve and be a new version interpreted. Basically, just simply thinking of it as the last version was the female vocal version by Jenny Plant, and this time, having Troy’s male vocals lead us into a different type of timbre for the interpretation of the theme, generally speaking. And you know, having that first version be like an acoustic guitar version sort of lent itself well for the rest of the development of it. Not to go into too many spoilers, but the original version of “BB’s Theme” also gets to have a reprise at the very end of the game in a way where we originally thought that it wouldn’t have the exact impact that we would hope for. But actually seeing it through the sequence of the end of the game, it really, to me at least, feels very impactful to have it like return. “The other versions that appeared earlier in the sequel are more like new interpretations, rather than true returns to how the original version actually feels when it does come back. That’s the general approach, I think.
If you had to pick one, what was your favorite track you composed for Death Stranding 2?
Ludvig Forssell: I get this question a lot, and I try to always give a different track as an answer to this. Sometimes I’ve talked about Neil’s themes, and let’s just say other parts of the soundtrack. I want to go back to “Over The Dunes,” which is the second track on the soundtrack. This was actually one of the tracks that I wrote in between the first Death Stranding and the sequel, as a canvas sort of thing, where I just tried some stuff out. And it’s featured throughout the game, bit by bit, but really it’s to sort of come out and shine at the very end of the game. Personally, it’s just this thing that I wrote because emotionally it felt right for what the game was going to be. It ended up being something I wrote before the game actually got into production, so it was nice to see it featured prominently throughout the game.
That’s awesome to hear. Funny enough, “Over The Dunes” was my favorite song on the soundtrack, and it was going to be the focus of my next question — but you ended up answering everything right here. Moving on, for Death Stranding and Death Stranding 2, did you work with Hideo Kojima on the implementation of balancing the music that you composed in addition to the licensed tracks that interweave throughout the game?
Ludvig Forssell: The process with working around the licensed tracks was very much quite like the first game, where even though you’re always trying to balance the dynamics in between these moments, the licensed tracks are basically handled completely by Hideo and where he wants to sprinkle those in. Thankfully, the game design really makes that quite easy with how much silence is also taken into account when you’re just traversing the barren areas in the game and working for hours to complete your deliveries, as right when coming up towards the end of a journey, the music hits quite right. We sort of set the standard for how to do that, and having been the Audio Director for the first one, focusing on how we’re going to build the sound design and soundscapes really made it easy. I think for the second one as well even though I was not involved in the same way for that this time around, it was always really like Hideo’s baby working with those licensed tracks.
With the soundtrack for this sequel, were there any new techniques that you got to play around with or employ that you’ve been tinkering with throughout the last couple of years?
Ludvig Forssell: With how the music is implemented in the game, we work with PlayStation, Sony, and the music team over there, who do all the music editing and mixing as well, and then implement it into the game. And obviously again, we had sort of made the blueprint with how we did everything for the first one, but this time around, I really wanted to play with how I actually write the music. Obviously, when we’re talking about interactive music, there are many techniques and many explanations on how to do that with, like, layering and everything, and that’s been said and done for the most part. So I wanted to work more around musicality and how I wrote music in a way where it wouldn’t be as, you know, spreadsheet-y or focused on techniques, but rather focused on writing suites of music that would have music let the music ebb and flow, and sort of start small and go big and go small again, and then work with the team to be able to actually implement that in a satisfying way for the gameplay to actually link well with how the music sounds in the game. So the music is written more like you would write for something where you don’t actually have to follow any rules, but then we worked around how we actually edit the music and how it’s all split up into pieces—small pieces—and then built back together to actually work with the gameplay in a way where it also feels like that makes for a much more interesting listening experience on the soundtrack as well.
Absolutely. In terms of production, you mentioned having an audio director for the first game. From your perspective on the audio side, what were the key differences in production between Metal Gear Solid V, Death Stranding, and Death Stranding 2? And how did you evolve both as a composer and in your broader work in audio throughout those projects?
Ludvig Forssell: Well, it’s sort of been like an up and down, crazy ride in terms of, like, you know, starting with Metal Gear, which has a legacy of 20-plus years at the time when I started with that. So we knew what we were sort of getting into, but it also made us sort of restricted in certain ways where you can’t just completely change things up. Going from that into Death Stranding, which obviously was something where we started from the ground up, from zero, trying to build something new—and also that being my first time working as the Audio Director and overseeing that workflow—meaning that, you know, I was thrown into the deep end of the pool. And then going into Death Stranding 2, where I’m now, as a freelancer, working solely focused on the music and also not working from the actual office, so it’s a completely different approach and sort of work balance there. It’s been very different each single time for a different reason. And I’d say right now, the biggest change or evolution from Death Stranding to where I am right now—also, I guess, compared to Metal Gear Solid V—is that, again, I’m solely focused on writing the music in an environment that is much more tailored to my own needs in a way. So that really helps for me to have a better idea of my own creative input, in a way.
You mentioned that you’re now a freelance composer, and since going freelance, you’ve had the chance to work on Mamoru Hosada’s Belle and the film Boy Kills World. Now that Death Stranding 2 is out, what genre or medium would you like to compose in next, if you had to choose one—whether video games, animation, or live action?
Ludvig Forssell: I’m doing all of them here and there, all at once. I did a full anime series last year, which was a completely new experience. One of the things I really want to do in the future is jump into another big game project that is completely different from anything I’ve done before. I’ve done a few smaller game projects on the side that are just about to come out. I’m also working on a Japanese film right now, so I’ve dipped my feet into all these different areas I always wanted to try. Having done Boy Kills World and tried out the Hollywood side of things, I definitely want to keep doing that.
Right now, my game background has been very focused on Japanese titles, especially through working with Kojima Productions. It would be really interesting to take on something of the same scale, something that spans multiple years, but in a completely different style. I never saw myself as the type of composer people now think I am, so I want more chances to show different facets of my work. I originally started as a guitarist in a band, so doing something outside the world of hybrid scoring that I’ve been involved with for a long time would be really exciting.
That’s great to hear. Thank you so much for your time, and best of luck with your upcoming projects! I cannot wait to hear what you are working on next.
Note: This interview was edited for clarity.
